Rinnai Tankless Hot Water Heaters

Rinnai Tankless Hot Water Heaters

June 14, 2006

A warning to anyone interested in purchasing these units, as we recently did: 1. My chief complaint is that the time interval to gain hot water at any point of service has doubled or even tripled. It takes a pathetic 67 seconds to get hot water at our kitchen sink; it used to take a

much, much shorter time with our traditional hot water tank. The time spent watching water go down the drain can be very frustrating -- especially if you're in a hurry! 2. There is a chance the appliance will not properly operate single valve faucets (such as showers where the hot/cold are on the same lever). We were not told of this, and now must have new fixtures

installed at our own expense. 3. Ongoing maintenance. We live in a 30-year-old home. We continue to get small deposits of sediment that clog the unit's filter, so weekly maintenance is necessary, involving about five minutes to shut off cold water supply, hit the release valve and remove and clean the filter. 4. Temperature of water at point-of-service sometimes varies. The Rinnai literature says it is constant, but in our home it's not. 5. The unit makes a moderate amount of noise when running. 6. It's a possibility that you may need to have a new gas meter and all new gas pipe installed in your home to accommodate Rinnai tankless units. When not running they don't draw any gas, but going full tilt they require almost 200,000 BTU, which coupled with a standard home furnace is more than many gas meters can deliver. Plus, a minimum 1 inch gas pipe is required. In addition, our municipality required an automatic earthquake shutoff valve ($250) to be installed with the new pipe. The literature doesn't mention the time delay, possible incompatibility with fixtures, potential on-going maintenance and noise the unit makes, and unless your heating contractor is more knowledgeable than ours, chances are they won't tell you either, so BUYER BEWARE! Mark

Sammamish WA

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Wow - With this kind of customer service from Rinnai. It would be hell freezes over before I put one Rinnai product in my house. Thanks for the warnings.

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I have carefully read some of these posts regarding dissatisfation with the Rinnai tankless water heating systems. Some are generally based on consumer ignorance or over-anticipation of what a tankless water heat is suppose to do.

Let's set the record straight and then I will tell you of my frustrating experience with the Rinnai people, not the unit so much, but with the corporate mentality that "their product is perfect" so, you the consumer or installer, must be at faults.

First. Expecting hot water faster at your tap as opposed to a tank type is is not possible with any tankless water heater alone. Hot water won't get to your remote tap any sooner with a tankless UNLESS you have a separate recirculating system (separate piping and a pump) to delivery hot water immediately to your tap. Period!

Second. If your unit falls off the wall, it is an installer failure to do it correctly.

Third. Pulling 200,000 BTUs of heating power in residential use means that your are pulling 9.4 gallons per minute (minimum) with extremely cold water going into the unit. The truth is, a bathtub, the largest demand of water in your house, it likely pulling less than 6.0 GPM which means your heating power would be considerable less than 200,000 BTUs. Yes, it does require a 1" gas line service but that is for the highest of the highest demand needs.

Fourth. A clogged filter in the water supply inlet is fault with your water service, house piping or municipal water quality. It is NOT the fault of the Rinnai or any other brand. Without a inlet filter, your resluting problem will be MUCH greater and more expensive. The reason for the filter is to protect the heat exchanger where the water is heated. If you didn't have the filter, debris particles (found in ALL water systems) would then clog the heat exchanger and reduce your water flow rate and correspondly heating of the water. Get use to removing the filter and cleaning it. Just a fact of life. Try not changing your car's oil filter and see how long your car's engine will last.

Fifth. If you are getting a variation in water temperature, then you may also be getting a variation in your water pressure or flow rate into the tankless water heater. Flow rate have EVERYTHING to do with placing a demand on the water heater's outflow and heating demand. Again, it working properly (and that can be easily tested) the water heater may be influenced by your water service's flow rate or fluctuation thereby juggling the hot and cold water differences at your tub, lavatory or shower. Again, the higher the demand flow rate of water throught the heater the higher the demand rate of gas in which to heat it. You're water and or gas services can be just as suspect.

Most of what I have read in the way of complaints regarding the Rinnai tankless water heaters would be the same experience with any other brand.

Now to my complaint. I had a Rinnai 94LSi unit installed in my 86 year old how just over 1 year ago. I'm in an area with the domestic water system is at least that old so sediment in the filters is a routine maintenance issue. (once every 3 months...not weekly)

I chose this size of unit for the present and future demands that I will have when adding another bath to the house. Let me say up front, the Rinnai works "flawlessly" except with the power is off. Haven't heard anyone say that yet.

My unit has an ENORMOUS roar and hormonic buzzing sound from the first day of use. Let me emphasize this noise. It can be heard from three houses down from me.

I pulled up the Rinnai webpage to see who were the warranty approved dealers and chose one closest to me. BTW....there are only 5-6 in the DFW area. ONLY 5-6 in an area of 5 million people. The warranty service company came to my house, examined the installation and witnessed the noise. The installation is Textbook perfect. The noise is enough to drive you out of the house.

Immediately, the service company pulled the cover to see if there was any obvious evidence or source. Found none. They examined the flue pipe installation and termination (a 19.5" flue and termination kit...about as short as you can get it). Found no problem. Checked the gas pressure/flow rate....again, no problem. Checked the water pressure/flow rate...no problem found.

Now this is where it gets frustrating. The serviceman contacted Rinnai Tech Support and reviewed the entire installation and evidence. Rinnai Tech Support (RTS) then started myriad instructions on testing the unit. 6 hours later, everything was tested, they heard the noise and said "Let us get back with you".

The next day, we started all over again, same test, same procedures, same this and same that. Rinnai wanted the gas pressure/flow rate performed again but this time with a different meter style.

The third day arrived, the serviceman armed with the different meter. Got RTS on the phone, conducted the test and got the same results as the day before. Still, a roar fills my house with each full hot demand on a bath tub.

I'll stop and shorten this by saying that after the 5th or 6th call of same testing, Rinnai sent out a new internal ggas valve and fan motor. They were changed, but the noise continued.

Jumping ahead, two MONTHS later and over 6 service calls, Rinnai asked that my gas service be tested. Now, this RST knew full and well that if my gas service was inadequate, that a "Fault Code" would have been set and the unit would have shut down. No such fault code has ever happend. Still....the noise continues.

To be honest, the noise has reduced since the above described service was performed.

Last week I received a marketing email from Rinnai to which I responded with total dissatisfaction. The marketing director contacted me and then their RTS Regional Director. That Regional Director DID NOT CALL me but instead called another warranty service company to come examine my unit. Now, I begin again with a second warranty service company. Needless to say, that first meeting better end with, "We are going to replace your entire unit" or, I call my lawyer.

I have had it with Rinnai's Tech Service. They are "Programmed" to find any fault outside of their tankless water heater and fall completely short of admitting that they could be at fault. I write this anticipating that if they haven't replaced the unit yet with 6 or 8 (lost count, need to go to my file), they will likely run the new warranty service company through the same series of tests.

I'm at the end of my rope, not because I don't like the way the unit performs...again, it is flawless. I will not deal with a company whose Tech Support personnel are inept or incapable of fixing problem that is solely their. I will buy another brand next time.

BTW....for those of you considering a tankless water heater change out, don't get ripped off by a plumber. My Rinnai 94 LSi cost $1400 including the flue and required valves. I had the second warranty plumber say that they get $4,000 for a change out. It will take one hour to do it...max. You decide. Are tankless water heaters a "savings" or not. I say, it's an industry "rip off" of the unsuspecting, uninformed public.

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While I am very sorry to see that you had a problem with your Rinnai water heater I feel compeled to mention a few things. The vibration you had was probally from the exhaust fan on the unit. the unit falling off the wall was from the installer not securing it properly.(you should not be able to rip the unit off with force) let alone a vibration. the smell most likley came from the water supply to the unit, which your installer should have known about if you had ANY Galvinized water lines in your home. Now the most important part. The time it takes for water to get from your water heater to your faucet. The MAJOR factor in that is the location of the unit. If you removed a standard water heater (storage type) and replaced with any tankless unit there is no additional time to deliver hot water to the fixture! The time it takes for the water to get to your fixture is based on the length of hot water line.. It doesnt matter if you have a 40gallon water heater, a tankless water heater, or a 10,000 gallon water heater. You still MUST purge the tempered water out of the line before the HOT water gets there. If you relocate the unit further from the original location than yes it will take longer. If it wasnt moved then its you imagination taking over and your old unit took the same amount of time to get hot water there.. think about it. Your installer should have taked care of the exaust fan.

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I sympathizes with Mark. Some of his complaints are indeed true. Some are more of an installer issue. But, over all, he is correct.

I purchased 4 Rinnai units for our large home. Three have worked flawlessly. The third, is for a shower by a swimming pool. This unit has been bad since the day it was put in. It vibrated so badly, that it fell off it's wall mounts.

The plumber made a complaint to the factory and they all but told us, to drop dead. First they blamed the problem on the installer. When we informed them the plumber was certified by Rinnai, they said the gas line must be too small. When we informed them the line was one inch, they changed their reasoning to: "The line must be too big." Then they blamed the method of the exhaust. We told them we used their exhaust system. That is when they said we must not have enough water pressure. This has gone on that way now for over two years.

Last month we noticed a very strong odor coming from the unit. We had the plumber call them and tell them that the original complaint of the vibrations was still there and now there is a strong odor that is not tolerable.

They had us send them the unit. While the unit was at Rinnai, our plumber installed a "loaner" unit so we would still have hot water for showers. This unit worked perfectly. No noise, no smell. Perfect.... just like the our

other units.

A few days ago, the plumber got a new gas valve from Rinnai. They said it was faulty. They did not even install the new gas valve.

The plumber installed that new gas valve in our old uni, and re installed the Rinnai for us.

The horrible vibration was STILL THERE!

The bad smell was gone how so ever.

Our plumber was so up set, he told us to keep the loaner and he would use the defective Rinnai for his work shop. In that use, he could secure it so it would not vibrate off a wall and the noise would not be a problem as the shop was noisy all the time anyway.

I am indebted to our plumber. I detest the warranty people at Rinnai!

It is a real shame, as the product, if installed by the right plumber, who should educate you on the traits of the product, is great.

But god forbid if you need a warranty repair. You likely will not get it from Rinnai. Under that scenario, I would not buy another Rinnai. There are other choices.

David

Albuquerque, New Mexico.