Botach Tactical, Los Angeles, CA - The dispute is over treatment I received while attempting to get a refund for a $2,700 product that was never delivered. I was promised $250 in interest on top of this amount to cover my time and trouble resolving this m

Botach Tactical, Los Angeles, CA - The dispute is over treatment I received while attempting to get a refund for a $2,700 product that was never delivered. I was promised $250 in interest on top of this amount to cover my time and trouble resolving this matter. It was never received.

&#160

January 5, 2006 - Consumer Follow-up Message - From: Email User

UPDATE - Botach Tactical / FN M249 SAW

This is an update to a complaint I posted against Botach Tactical of Los Angeles, CA on or about 7/14/04. For the sake of reference, my original complaint can be found at: http://www.complaints.com/directory/2004/july/14/21.htm Jason UPDATED INFORMATION ABOUT THE CHRONOLOGY OF EVENTS *************************** Approximately 7/20/04, I received another call from BK Botach. He told me that he had begun receiving calls that made him nervous from agencies like the California AG’s office and the BBB. He asked me what I was doing because he thought we had resolved all of our outstanding issues. I reminded him about the $250 check he promised and about how it was not delivered. I then mentioned that he should not be surprised because I told him exactly to whom I was complaining and about what. I also told him that no complaints would be dropped until I was satisfied that our business was completed, and that would not occur until the check he promised cleared my bank with no more excuses or delays. He apologized for the misunderstanding and promised again to send the check. It arrived about a week later and it was cashed with no problems. At that point I dropped all of my complains about this issue because Botach Tactical had finally done the right thing. The time and hassle it took to reach this resolution was extroardinary, but in the end I must say that they corrected their mistake. As a separate issue, I was informed on 1/4/06 that Botach is attempting to improve their dismal record of customer service. They have hired a new person specifically tasked with improving customer relations and they are committed to altering some of their previous business practices. I wish them the best of luck in this endeavor and I would like to one day hear that experiences like mine were a thing of the past. The coming months will be important ones for them and we should all see what happens. J.B.

July 14, 2004:

Botach Tactical / FN M249 SAW

This complaint is about: Bar Kochba (BK) Botach, Owner Botach Tactical 3423 W. 43rd. Place Los Angeles, CA 90008 Phone: 323-816-0407 E-mail: Email User The dispute is over treatment I received while attempting to get a refund for a $2,700 product that was never delivered. I was promised $250 in interest on top of this amount to cover my time and trouble resolving this matter. It was never received. The resolution I want is for BK to send me the $250 he promised or go out of business so that he won’t make false promises to others. IN SUMMARY: Botach Tactical took my money for an NFA sample that I ordered to demonstrate to a Government customer. They cashed my check immediately. I was strung along for about a year with assurances that all was well with my order. Then the contact stopped. When I call to follow up on my order’s status, I was at first ignored and then I finally found out that they “lost” my order. When I asked for a refund, I was given the runaround and asked to talk to ex-employees with no power to deal with my complaint. When I approached the owner, BK Botach, with the evidence of the transaction and of his company’s liability, I was stonewalled and my calls and E-mails were subsequently “Blown-off.” When enough pressure was finally brought to bear to encourage BK to give me a refund, he failed to follow through and provide the additional sum that he himself proposed as a good faith attempt to repair this situation. During the entire episode, he was difficult to contact and extremely dishonest and disingenuous in virtually all of his statements to me. In my opinion, BK Botach and his company have a lousy customer service ethic and no troubling moral problems that prevent them from lying, cheating and otherwise behaving in an underhanded and questionable fashion. Even when they are caught, they are not repentant. They give you evasions, then excuses, then false promises; and once they determine that they have no outstanding criminal liability with which you can threaten them, you might as well be dead to them. I believe that dealers of guns (in general) and machineguns (in specific), should be held to a high standard of ethics, legality and accountability in how they conduct their business. By these standards, even Botach’s friends must admit that he is a terrible failure. Following, is a chronological account of my interactions with Botach Tactical and BK Botach. I HAVE PHYSICAL COPIES OF ALL DOCUMENTS, INCLUDING CHECKS, ORDERS, LETTERS, NOTES AND E-MAILS TO SUBSTANTIATE MY CLAIMS. These copies have been presented to BK Botach as evidence (By whom they were ignored) as well as to all agencies and entities to which complaints regarding this matter have been referred. Thank you for your valuable time and attention. Sincerely, Jason B 9190 E. Kayenta Dr. Tucson, AZ 85749-8647 &#160 CHRONOLOGY OF EVENTS *************** Early May, 2003: I began to look for a sample Fabrique Nationale (FN) machinegun on behalf of a New Mexico town marshal’s office. They wished to see a demonstration of this weapon to evaluate it for possible purchase. I contacted several FN dealers over the next few weeks to inquire about pricing and availability. Week of 05/19/2003: I contacted Botach Tactical and spoke to Ephraim Diveroli, one of their sales associates. He quoted me a price on the sample I wanted, plus proposed a deal whereby I could demo two additional guns to the same department for no charge, as long as the additional samples were returned when the demo was complete. This was an attempt for him to generate additional sales for Botach, who would of course sell the additional guns, if the demonstration was favorably received. I decided to purchase from Botach Tactical because of their price and because of the fact that I had ordered from them before (5 Post ’86 Sample Galil machineguns about 2-3 years earlier) with no problems. Week of 05/26/2003: I contacted the Town Marshal in New Mexico and explained the process for the demonstrations. He wrote a Demonstration Request Letter (DRL) and forwarded it to me. 06/10/2003: I submitted via US Mail a formal order to Botach for the samples I discussed with Ephraim (As above), along with the DRL and a cashier’s check in the amount of $2,728.75 as a 50% down payment. The balance would be due when the order was ready to ship. (UPDATE: Since my payment was sent via US Mail, some of Botach’s subsequent activities meet the technical definition of Mail Fraud. This fact was noted and I ultimately filed a complaint with the US Postal Service.) 06/13/2003: I received an E-mail from Ephraim stating that my order was received and had been forwarded to FN for fulfillment. 06/16/2003: My certified check was cashed and deposited to the account of “BOTACH TACTICAL, a dba of BARKOCHBA BOTACH.” Here there is a long stretch of time where I heard nothing concerning my order. This was not unexpected as Ephraim told me that FN had a production backlog and because the NFA paperwork for machineguns always takes a long time. I did speak to Ephraim once or twice during this time via telephone regarding other matters, such as current sales and promotions offered by Botach, etc. Week of 10/06/2003: Ephraim contacted me via telephone and told me that FN required some additional documentation in order to process my order. He outlined these requirements and told me where to send the information. 10/15/2003: I forwarded the additional documentation and letters that Ephraim requested to Tausha Carter at FNH USA, Inc., the USA manufacturing subsidiary of FN. Week of 11/10/2003: Ephraim called me and told me that my order should be ready for shipment in approximately 6-8 weeks. Here several more months pass with no contact and no news at all. Toward the end of this period, I am becoming increasingly concerned about the status of my order. 05/2004 – Early 06/2004: I send several E-mails to both BK and Ephraim, asking for a status on my order. With the utter lack of response, the tone of my messages eventually shifts from “When will my order ship?” to “I need a refund ASAP.” None of these messages are returned. (UPDATE: I would later learn that Ephraim was no longer working for Botach by this time. I was never contacted or informed of this fact by either BK or Ephraim, despite my many messages.) 06/15/2004: I sent another E-mail to both Ephraim and BK inquiring about the status of my order. This time, I attached a copy of my order and my check to jog their collective memory and speed their response. This E-mail, like the others, gets no response from either of them. 06/16/2004: I finally managed to contact BK via telephone. He claimed that my E-mail of 6/15/04 (Which he apparently read but did not respond to) was the first time he ever heard of my order and that “Ephraim no longer has an association with [Botach] and he made all kinds of these deals, so you will have to talk to him.” (Why BK would read the E-mail, see that there was a problem or misunderstanding of some sort, and yet never think to call or E-mail me back, even if only to explain the situation, is completely beyond my understanding.) He then gave me Ephraim Diveroli’s new phone number. This was the first concrete indication I had that there was a serious problem with my order, and that the very real possibility existed that I would not get the product or my money. Why I needed to contact Ephraim at this point was unclear to me, and BK did not adequately explain it. I assumed that he wanted me to contact Ephraim for some kind of confirmation only, as such a call would otherwise make no sense: After all, Botach cashed my check, so why would I expect an ex-employee to issue me a refund or solve my complaint—something which only Botach could accomplish? I would soon come to believe that this was the first step in BK trying to shift the blame for the situation, and its subsequent resolution, onto someone else’s doorstep. Regardless, I contacted Ephraim on the phone as BK requested. Ephraim was surprised to hear from me. He confirmed that he no longer worked for Botach and expressed surprise that my order was never shipped. He also asked why I was calling him about this matter, to which I had no good reply. I asked Ephraim to contact BK, who he claimed to still be in contact with regarding some outstanding personal business matters between the two, to confirm my story so that I could at least get a refund of my deposit. Ephraim promised to give BK a call that same day. He also told me that BK should give me a refund with no problems, although he may stall or put the matter off. To that end, he told me that FN does not bill Botach until a product ships, so I should not fall for any stories BK might give me about “Needing to wait for a refund or credit, etc.,” before I could receive my refund. Needless to say, this implication of less than honest dealing from an ex-employee concerned me greatly. I was also troubled by Ephraim’s guarded and minimal responses to my questions about Botach’s status and business practices. (UPDATE: I later heard from several separate sources, who wished to remain anonymous, that Ephraim is either BK’s nephew or cousin and that the business he moved to in Florida, Global Arms Co., is a sister company of Botach Tactical. Allow me to make it very clear that I did not discover this from either BK or Ephraim, nor have I found as of the time of this writing anyone knowledgeable enough to corroborate these potentially troubling statements beyond all doubt. If they are true, I am not sure how this fits into the ongoing BK vs. Ephraim debate, or to what extent their division has been used as an excuse to defraud customers. Even if there has been no fraud, it is not acceptable in my opinion for family disputes to fall over into business, where customers are hurt.) Immediately after I got off the phone, I followed up with another E-mail to BK telling him about the call. I also attached another copy of my order and cashier’s check to this E-mail. There was no response to this E-mail. 06/17/04: I attempted to contact BK by telephone and left a message. This message was not returned. 06/21/04: I attempted to contact BK by telephone and left a message. This message was not returned. I also sent an E-mail to follow up on the phone message. It was not responded to. 06/25/04: I attempted to contact BK by telephone and left a message. This message was not returned. I also sent an E-mail to follow up on the phone message. It was not responded to. 06/28/04: I again summarized my problems to Botach and requested a refund of my deposit in a final demand letter that was sent three ways (Faxed, mailed and E-mailed) to BK. This was done to avoid his habit of saying “I never got that.” Attached to each of these was a third copy of my order and check and letters, etc. I also wrote that I was getting tired of my calls not being returned, and that he had until the end of the week to make good or I would pursue formal complaints. 06/29/04: In the morning, I get an E-mail from BK saying that “You are not being ignored.” I responded with an E-mail of my own that contained a fourth copy of my order and check. This message encouraged him to finally deal with this matter so I would not have to file any complaints, which could be a headache to both of us. The fact is not lost on me that he never tried to contact me until I promised official action. Shortly thereafter, BK calls me on the telephone. This is the first call I have received from him during this entire process. He apologized for the mix-up and said again that Ephraim was responsible and that we would have to contact him. I told him that I was not interested in pursuing that line of inquiry as it was pointless. He then said that he did not have enough information to figure out what went wrong with my purchase, and that I should send him all the information I had. (Note: That would be the fifth time I sent him the information, which he claims he “Never got.”) As the evasions and equivocations continued (He told me repeatedly that he did not know what was going on, and that he never responded to me E-mails because he was a bad typist, and that he did not return my calls because he was busy, etc.), I finally had enough and told him “The bottom line is that your company took my order and your company cashed my check. I can get a copy of the cancelled check proving that, if you like, but either way, you need to deal with this problem yourself and quit putting it off on others.” He was silent for a few seconds and then said, “Yes, get me a copy of that check and then maybe we can settle this among ourselves.” 06/30/04: I obtain a copy of the cashed cashier’s check from my bank, Wells Fargo, showing an endorsement and payment to “PAY TO THE ORDER OF bank leumi USA … FOR DEPOSIT ONLY, BOTACH TACTICAL, A dba OF BARKOCHBA BOTACH ….” This copy is both E-mailed and faxed to BK, alone with a cover sheet reminding him that I intend to file official complaints if I do have a refund by Friday. The fax and E-mail were not responded to. 07/07/2004. I called BK on the telephone. He said “I am on another line right now and don’t have your paperwork in front of me. As soon as I finish this call, I’ll call you right back. I have your number.” No such call was forthcoming up to the submission of this complaint. 07/07/2004-07/08/2004: After the last exchange, I am convinced that BK has no real interest in dealing with this issue and I finally proceed with formal actions. I begin filing official complaints with government agencies (BATF, USPS, California DOJ and AG, Arizona AG, and the FTC) as well as other oversight groups, such as the Southern California BBB. I also begin posting the details of my experience with Botach on several prominent industry boards. I find out, in response to my posts, that this sort of behavior is common for him and that his reputation in the industry is very poor. Botach also has several outstanding complaints against them with the BBB. My posts on these boards would be continuously updated and my position clarified (To those friends of BK’s who posted in his defense) as the situation progressed. 07/09/2004: I get a call from BK Botach. This call seems to have been spawned by a combination of factors: His notice of my postings on the boards from 7/7/04-7/8/04 and the intervention of a sympathetic local party who (Apparently) had some pull or influence with BK. In that conversation, BK said that after further reflection, he wanted to do the right thing by me. He said that he was wrong to deal with the matter as he did, and that he would send me a cashier's check with a full refund via FedEx to arrive on Monday, 7/12/04. He also said that he would include an extra check for $250 to cover my trouble and the "interest" on the unexpected “loan” that my money represented to Botach Tactical (As I never received any product after one year of them having my money). This last part was proposed by BK himself, without any urging from me; although I felt it was perfectly reasonable and should have been expected as part of any legitimate attempt to make amends for this situation. It finally looked as if an amicable resolution was in sight. 07/12/2004: I spoke too soon! Monday came along with the mail from Botach. It did include a check. However, not all was as promised: First of all, it was just a regular business/personal check, and not cashier's or certified check (Ironically, the check was drawn on the same account to which my check had been deposited more than a year earlier—The one BK claimed not to know anything about). After some of the posts about his rubber checks on the boards, that fact was not encouraging. Furthermore, in place of the additional check for the interest, there was a handwritten Post-It Note from BK saying "Ephraim says he will send you the check for the interest himself." But BK and Ephraim weren’t talking to one another any more, right? Alarm bells ring… Whether BK actually contacted Ephraim and actually had his cooperation on this proposed resolution had to be established. In the mean time, I deposited this check and hope it clears. (Since it can take up to a month for a check to be returned NSF, especially from some small “no name” banks, I will have to keep you all posted on whether it turns into rubber or not.) 07/13/02004: I begin the day with an E-mail to Ephraim asking him to verify BK’s story. His response was rapid and unequivocal: [Ephraim wrote] “At this point it does not surprise me that a cashier’s check was not sent [and] I never offered any sort of interest to anybody whatsoever with regards to this transaction, WHY WOULD I? Mr. Botach is obviously playing us and at this point I will resist any attempt to further involve myself in this transaction.” The subtext was “Too bad you got screwed, even though I had nothing to do with it. I’m not surprised. Leave me out of it.” Whether this response is ethical or not under the circumstances (He was the Botach rep who started this all), it is certainly understandable. Anyway, BK’s promises of 7/9/04 were meaningless. I asked myself, “What kind of petty shyster can't even live up to HIS OWN ideas, follow through on HIS OWN suggestions?” No one asked him for the interest, so why did he go out of his way to propose it if he never intended to pay it? Is he nuts; deranged? In my opinion, he seems finally to have caught his hand in the proverbial “Cookie jar” as being a pathological liar and incapable of straight dealing. After all, he lies even when there is no longer a point to lying! The only reasonable conclusion is that he thinks he can repair his reputation with smokescreens and false promises; and that people will not notice or talk about how his actions differ from his words. Does he really believe this works? Based on my experience and that of others, I guess he does. After this (Not entirely unexpected) revelation, I send BK another E-mail asking him why he pulled this dishonest changeup after we had supposedly sorted everything out on Friday. I attached a copy of the letter I received from Ephraim. I also asked him if he had any explanations for this additional insult before I returned a call from the California DOJ later that afternoon. BK did try to call me and he left a message, which I could not return immediately because I was in a meeting. Instead, I sent an E-mail informing him that I could be reached by E-mail for the remainder of the afternoon and that I would appreciate a response from him before I called the California DOJ back. His only response was an E-mail including a photo of his “Oh-so-impressive” business card with all the verbiage about Botach being a “Law Enforcement Specialist” (Was this supposed to be intimidation? That would be kind of funny if you read the opinions that many past Botach LE Customers have about their own experiences with Botach on the various boards) and the DOJ phone number. The message from this E-mail was very clear: Screw off. Bring it on. I am sure that sometime between Friday and 7/13/04, BK made the mental calculation that as long as his refund check clears; he can probably not be pursued criminally. Once that fear was gone, I could just piss off. I have not heard from him since. Jason B Click this link to e-mail the above consumer: //