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Dr. Wise, naturpathic doctor of herbs and QUACKY practices in Pryor, Oklahoma
Posted on Friday, December 19th, 2003 at 12:00am CST by e970bb6f
From: Elizabeth Montgomery [firstname.lastname@example.org] Dr. Wise, naturpathic "doctor" of herbs and QUACKY practices in Pryor, Oklahoma
DATED and WRITTEN December 17, 2003 SUBMITTED TO THE Better Business Bureaus of the United States of America AND to Complaints.com: SHORT VERSION: I visited this naturopathic or "herbal doctor", Dr. Wise, in Pryor, Oklahoma. Dr. Wise personally invited me, over the phone, to come see him, even though I stated that I did not have any money. I was asked to sign the most oddly written form which generally stated that Dr. Wise was NOT a medical doctor, and I was asked to sign it and agree NOT to sue him or involve any law practice against him after the visit. Now, there was NO agreement, (neither oral, nor written, nor posted, nor understood) about a FEE for any office visit. But Dr. Wise took me back and very forwardly began a lengthy process of lifting and pressing down on my arms and lightly pressing on various weird places on my body while having me hold a certain number of various pills and telling me to open my mouth and take certain liquid "herbs" under my tongue: he DIDN'T TELL ME WHAT THESE LIQUIDS WERE beforehand, and never asked me if I was allergic to any of them -- and he used the same droppers to dispense these liquids that he USED ON OTHER PATIENTS before me!!! After verbally "diagnosing" me with everything from a mal-functioning pituitary glands to bad ovaries to allergies to having diahreah to having irregular periods to entering the change of life (these diagnoses were concluded JUST FROM HIM DOING THESE ABSURD RITUALS ALONE), Dr. Wise told me I needed thyroid and Hypothalmupar, but tried to sell me 4 other herbs as well. When I went to the front to pay for the 2 herbs, I was informed that I ALSO OWED FOR AN OFFICE VISIT! Well, since I had originally told Dr. Wise that I had no money, and he had personally invited me to come see him anyway, I felt duped, and offered to pay $20, instead of the $72.40 they were trying to charge me ($35.oo of which was for the quacky "office visit")!!! I told them both (the lady at the cash register and Dr. Wise) that I was NOT TOLD there would be a charge for the office visit! I have refused to pay, and now they are claiming they're about to take "legal action". !!!!! LONG VERSION: This complaint is agiainst Dr. Wise, a naturopathic doctor in Pryor, Oklahoma. My complaint as one of his first-time patients is for his superimposed medical practices against me and for his charging me an office-visit fee without my prior knowledge. On July 10, 2003, I visited this naturopathic or "herbal doctor", Dr. Wise, who was an hour away from me in Pryor, Oklahoma. My hair had been falling out for a month, and I could not afford to see a doctor. Dr. Wise personally invited me, over the phone, to come see him, even though I stated that I did not have any money: he said that my financial situation was "not a problem" and to "come see him anyway". I cried and thanked him and travelled (with 5 kids and my husband) to see him. (I had originally hoped to just ask him a few general questions over the phone, avoiding any possible fees, but I was happy to go see him at his invitation since i was desparate to stop my hair loss.) Upon entering Dr. Wise's office, which is inside an herb shop which does not advertise his practice, I was seated at a table and asked to sign the most oddly written form which generally stated that Dr. Wise was NOT a medical doctor, and asked me to agree NOT to sue him or involve any law practice against him after the visit. There was a lengthy paragraph at the bottom of the form which was written in layman's terms to say that I could not involve the government, the police, or a legal individual or firm after seeing Dr. Wise. Also, there was NO agreement, (neither oral, nor written, nor posted, nor understood) as concerning any FEES that would be incurred by my visit. The visit was conducted as follows: Dr. Wise very forwardly, without good or gentle manners, began a lengthy process of lifting and pressing down on my arms and lightly pressing on various weird places on my body while having me hold a certain number of various pills and telling me to open my mouth and take certain liquid "herbs" under my tongue: he DIDN'T TELL ME WHAT THESE LIQUIDS WERE beforehand, never asked me if I was allergic to any of them -- he just aggressively had me take these products under my tongue while I had NO IDEA what they were and while he continued his quacky rituals of raising and pressing down on my arms (he didn't give me a choice, just nervously bossed me around and acted like he knew what he was doing and like it was a practice everyone was doing).
A VERY VITAL POINT that I want to address here is that Dr. Wise did NOT EVEN USE A NEW, STERILE DROPPER to put these drops in my mouth!!! He pulled the liquids out of the (2 separate) bottles with the lids that were already on them and put drops in my mouth, brushing the SAME droppers against my membranes that he apparently used to PUT IN OTHERS' MOUTHS!!! I felt that this was very unsanitary and highly unprofessional medically! I did not realize that these droppers had been used on anyone else until the visit was over with, and he had talked me into buying one of these liquids. I ASSUMED I would be buying the SAME bottle he had used on me (presuming he had used it on no one else and WOULD NOT use it on anyone else), when he said "NO! THAT'S MY BOTTLE - that's mine for using in HERE!" And he handed me a brand new bottle, keeping the other for FUTURE USE ON OTHERS. Big mistake! I could have contracted anything, including AIDS, from this improper, careless treatment. Furthermore, again, how do I even know exactly WHAT he put under my tongue both times since he did not tell me or make notes of it in any records??? Dr. Wise then began verbally "diagnosing" me with everything from a mal-functioning pituitary glands to bad ovaries to allergies to having diahreah to having irregular periods to entering the change of life-----and these diagnoses were concluded JUST FROM HIM DOING THESE ABSURD RITUALS!!! NONE OF THESE MEDICAL ASSERTIONS WERE MEDICALLY TESTED by him or could be ascertained that day at all -- in fact, I was perfectly healthy, having had 5 children BORN AT HOME with no complications; I'd NEVER had diahreah (quite the opposite, in fact)....... I've been to a REGULAR DOCTOR twice since my visit with Dr. Wise and indeed HAVE NONE OF THE CONDITIONS DR. WISE STATED ADAMANTLY THAT I HAD. I even questioned Dr. Wise about his credentials while I was with him (as I bucked against these weird, unsubstantiated practices). I asked him "exactly what TYPE of medical practice was all this arm movement stuff....it seems pretty quacky to me and did he really know what he was doing???", to which he hotly replied (with a wave of his arm toward the wall), "See all these [plaques]?! Of COURSE I know what I am doing!" And he rattled off a few of the rinky-dink awards and certificates he had received. The "visit", which by the way was interrupted several times by chatting shoppers and one friend of Dr. Wise's who was battling cancer, was over with after 45 minutes, and I went to the front with only 2 out of 6 of the bottles of herbs Dr. Wise had tried to get me to buy and take. When i got to the front to pay for these herbs (thyroid and Hypothalmupar), I was informed that I owed $37.40 for the herbs and $35 for the "visit"!!! I knew from shopping around for thyroid and various herbs that Dr. Wise had GREATLY OVERPRICED his herbs, for starters, and secondly, there had been NO MENTION of a FEE for the "visit" (which was more like an informal circus act interrupted by chatting bystanders who appeared to "validate" this egotistical man who called himself a Doctor!) I told the lady we did NOT discuss a fee for the visit whatsoever, and asked her why the herbs were so highly priced. She acted like it was MY oversight to not know there would be a fee, and siad that herbs were this price everywhere. Because I was convinced I needed the herbs, and because I didn't want to have wasted the whole trip (with 5 kids and husband in tow), I offered to pay $20, knowing that would cover the cost of the herbs plus more (for their profit), and I told the lady I got paid in 2 weeks and would see what else I could afford to pay then. She agreed, and we signed nothing. At this point (while I was writing my check), Dr. Wise meandered to the front where I was and began telling me that by looking at my hands, and my finger joints, he could tell that I am allergic to wheat (because I have large hands)! I denied this, telling him I've eaten wheat all my life with no problem, but he insisted that I was allergic. I just shook my head and chose not to argue any more. I don't know how Dr. Wise could make so many adamant medical claims on a stranger whose blood he'd never tested and whose temperature he never took and whose family history he never discussed and whose chemistry he never probed!!! After I left Dr. Wise's "office", I reported the whole thing to the close friend who had originally suggested I see Dr. Wise (this friend USED TO advertise Dr. Wise on her website but now has denounced him and removed the ads from her website due to Dr. Wise's compromised ways. Dr. Wise had been giving this friend free herbs and visits in return for the advertising.) Now, as of December 17, 2003, I have been billed 3 times. I have contacted Dr. Wise's office twice by email explaining this whole situation, and refusing to pay the bill, with no direct reply. Today I received a letter from Dr. Wise's office, via certified mail, stating (in addition to the repeated bill) that if I did not pay them the "remainder" of the bill ($56) by the 23rd of this month, they will take "legal steps for collection" and "legal expenses will be incurred and added to the monthly bill along with penalties and interest". Dr. Wise should be diagnosing people in this manner, merely by LIFTING AND LOWERING (and pretending not to be ABLE to lower) THEIR ARMS and by barely pressing on various body parts while I held certain pills in the palm of their hand - what a TOTAL, ABSOLUTE QUACK!! (I tried the ARM thing with my mother AND my husband (holding the same pills in my hand, just like Dr. Wise did) and - of course - Dr. Wise could have pushed my arms down JUST LIKE MY LITTLE MOTHER DID if he hadn't been pretending. The only good news was that it turns out I DID need the thyroid meds for my hair loss WHICH WAS THE SINGLE AND ONLY REASON I WENT TO SEE DR. WISE to begin with. PLEASE NOTE THIS RESPONSE FROM DR. WISE TO ANOTHER WOMAN WHO WROTE TO HIM ONLINE about her headaches. SHE WROTE: I have recently started taking natural hormones. Estradiol (0.25mg) and Progesterone (12.5mg). I have been struggling for months now with headachesand low energy before and during my cycle. I have many other symptoms of perimenopause and had a saliva test for hormone levels. Yet this month was worse again. (I actually had been doing better--who knows why?) I've taken the hormones for about two weeks. The last 3 days I stopped the estradiol and just used the progesterone. I wish I could find an answer. I am not able to take soy as I have colitis and soy is one of the foods that irritates. Any help you could offer would be appreciated. My dr. is not familiar with natural hormones at all and I had to tell her what to give me. DR. WISE'S REPLY: Dear Deb,
I applaud your efforts to go with the natural hormones andsince it appears that you are doctoring yourself, I'm sure that this time of balancing is frustrating for you. The best advice I can give you is to consult a naturapath or a doctor who deals with natural also. If you can't find one in your area, then we do have phone consultations available here (888) 235-2920.
It sounds from what your describing that your glands aren't working properly, which may or may not be due to perimenopause. It sounds from the description as though this is especially true of the hypothalumus and the pituitary. Your hormones will NOT balance until these are balanced first. Have you noticed if your menstrual flow is consistent from month to month? It is possible that you may need to take RNA/DNA if the flow varies greatly. I'd like to see you have a visit with a naturapath or a qualified professional in the natural medicine area. It's difficult to diagnose yourself and without an actual visit its difficult to get definate results.
Dr. Jack NOTICE HOW DR. WISE TOLD THIS WOMAN she had the VERY SAME PROBLEMS HE TOLD ME I HAD BECAUSE MY HAIR WAS FALLING OUT! Below are some other things Dr. Wise has claimed to people with some SERIOUS medical problems, who have WRITTEN to him ONLINE on one particularly popular homeschooling website. (NOTE THAT COMMENTS 3 through 8 are written in reply to a woman who wrote telling Dr. Wise that she was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia, had her gallbladder removed and a benign angiomyolipoma on her right kidney embolized; has acid reflux, is on Zoloft for anxiety; feels horrible for the past week and is in a lot of pain - particularly in her upper chest and arms; has been put on Ultram (whech she is not taking as it interacts with the Zoloft); has been taking Naproxen; just had an ECG done showing normal with a slight arrythmia; her regular doctor said her symptoms were very possibly hormonal or anxiety related but took 4 tubes of blood to check her Thyroid, ANA, female hormones, prolactin, etc., and she is "a bit paranoid about all this", which is why she originally started taking Zoloft. NOTE HIS ANSWERS IN COMMENTS 3 through 8!) 1.You evidently have a glandular imbalance.
2.Do you have the following symptoms? Your mind never seems to shut down. You wake up at 1 am or 4 am or both. You have sun sensitivity with your eyes. If so, your adrenal glands are stressed and your parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous systems are out of balance which makes it necessary to rebuild your adrenals.
3. You may rest assured there is nothing serious going on with you other than what happens with most males.
4. ...many of your problems - the reflux, the pressure on your heart, the pain in your chest and arms and the arrythmia can all be related to having a Hiatal Hernia...
5. Your glands are out of balance
6. You need a number of products to balance your hormones and make your periods even.
7. Zoloft is not your answer.
8. There is no doubt that your adrenal glands are stressed and your mind is running 24/7 which tells me that you will need a nervine plus something to support your adrenals and Apiol for your hypothalmus.
9. What your husband has is probably a subaeceous cyst.
10. He should be healed long before November 4 but don't cancel his appointment because I am at a distinct disadvantage because of the distance.
11. [IN RESPONSE TO A WOMAN WHOSE SON HAS A HARD TIME READING:] Most children who have learning disabilities are hypoglycemic so the first thing is to use a neutriceutical called DMAE....Because he is chunky he is probably also moody and would be a result of a hypothyroid condiiton. That is also a result of a malfunctioning hypothalmus. The products we use have never failed us in this regard.
12. [To a girl with horrendously hard menstral cramps:] Her endocrine system is not working properly for one thing. You may be able to have her sit in a straight chair with her buttocks all the way to the rear and lift her legs to see if they appear to be of an equal length.
13. Everybody is allergic to most wheat - not because it's wheat - because it has been genetically modified with insecticides and pesticides inbread into the grain.
14. Wheat makes you allergic to dust, detergent, cat and dog dander, feathers and wool. Therefore, when you eat wheat you will react to those things.
15. [To a woman with severe menstrual cramps:] Your have a glandular imbalance and unless they start working properly you will continue to be unpredictable and in pain...It would take much time to write what needs to be done and I would be happy to do a phone consultation for $25.00 to help you. You may call 888-235-2920 to schedule a phone consultation.Oklahoma is NOT one of the 11 states which require a license to practice Naturopathy, unfortunately. Florida, which DOES require a license, hasn't issued a license to a naturopath since the mid 1950's. To obtain a license one must have a professional degree, for example, M.D. or D.O.
Here are 2 lawsuits on file against the NCNM NCME (associations which promote naturopathy):
http://www.anma.com/lawsuit2.htm Dr. Wise is physically located at:
Herbs & More
208 South Mill
Pryor, OK 74361
Dr is in by appointment T/W/F
918-825-9493 Lewis Crossing Clinic AND:
(9am-6pm/M-F & 9am-2pm/St)
6959 South Lewis
Dr is in by appointment M/R/St
918-492-2400 Dr. Wise does NOT have his own domain on the internet. However, he does occupy space at the Nature's Sunshine website: http://www.mynsp.com/web/wise/first_page.jsp He also occupies space at a few other banner-ad-exchange websites, advertising Nature's Sunshine products and offering consultations. Signed,
Professional Artist and Jornalist,
Homeschooling mother of 5 children
website: www.elizabethmontgomeryart.com WITNESSES:
Josh Montgomery, husband
Sharon and Tom Montgomery, parents
Dona Inman, friend and former-promoter of Dr. Wise