4colorprint.com - 4colorprint.com is a scam, charging without permission

Posted on Thursday, January 16th, 2014 at 7:39pm CST by 2441d3a4

Product: 30mil plastic cards

Company: 4colorprint.com

Location: 1863 Whitney Mesa Dr.
HENDERSON, NV, 28315, US

URL: http://www.4colorprint.com

Category: Online Scams

http://4colorprint.com tauts having "No Setup Costs. No hidden fees". They don't charge you for shipping at check out, then AFTER you've looked at the proofs, they hit you with a shipping charge that is marked up over 500%! After I requested a refund, they said that post-checkout shipping charges are in their terms and conditions (they are not) and that they would charge me 20% for the automated proof that was sent to me.

How the scam works: advertise transparency then ripoff your customer after already having captured the order. Where did I EVER agree to that ridiculous, over inflated shipping cost? I would have had to agree to ALL the charges before they could consider the order processed.


11 Comments

Post a Comment

Business Reply  Howard, 2014-01-23, 05:15PM CST

I do remember speaking to you through e-mail and it sounds like you misunderstood me. Our website states shipping as 'TBD' To be Determined and nowhere on our website does it say Free Shipping. We take the weight and your zip code to calculate shipping straight from UPS.com so we have no control over how much shipping is. I stated our 20% cancellation fee is in our terms and conditions, I did not say shipping costs are in our terms and conditions. We feel this post was made out of miscommunication and can guarantee to the public that we are not a scam. We are sorry you had a bad experience and would like to know what we can do to help you move forward with your transaction. Thank you

2441d3a4, 2014-01-24, 04:13AM CST

Again, please finish processing my order.

There was no miscommunication, the email you sent me (below) clearly states "Also, it does state in our terms and conditions that we do charge shipping after the order has been placed." No, they do not. If shipping is to be determined, then the charge is to be approved as well, especially a 20% markup... what is a customer doesn't agree with the shipping charge you came up with? The 20% cancellation is part of the scam because you send the final invoice with shipping AFTER the proof, so you can claim that work was already done. If you need someone to approve a proof, why wouldn't there be need to approve the shocking (outrageous) shipping charge? You have so many other notifications and texts throughout your check out process, why not have a big sign or popup warning customers? Instead you make your TBD shipping charge inconspicuous, to facilitate your scam.

If it isn't a scam, why not calculate shipping at checkout like 99% of the other websites in the world? Is this your first order, or have you shipped orders before and therefore would be able to estimate shipping costs? Not marked up shipping? Try USPS flat rate boxes, or UPS ground. I used to ship 50+ orders a day, I know you marked up your shipping by a lot.

Now you're purposely delaying the order by asking AGAIN what I want to do with the order? Move forward and get it processed. Meanwhile I'll keep consumers informed on this site and others of every little tactic you use.

-------- Your Reply --------

Thank you for your e-mail. We have a note when you place the order next to shipping that says 'TBD' for To Be Determined. There is no bait and switch tactic going on here. Nowhere on our website does it say 'Free Shipping' so if you had a question about it, like many of our customers do, we would expect you to ask for the quotes prior to ordering. Also, it does state in our terms and conditions that we do charge shipping after the order has been placed. Lastly, if you cancel your order now we will need to keep 20% because we have worked on your order and sent you a proof. Please let us know how you would like to proceed.

Please let us know if you need anything else.

Designline Graphics Inc.

888-678-9998

www.4colorprint.com

-------- Original Message --------

The $24 you added for shipping AFTER the order is unacceptable. Not only is the shipping cost excessively marked up, but adding it afterward is clearly a bait and switch tactic as you could easily notify shoppers prior to checkout. Please cancel my order. I will be happy to shop elsewhere, even if it cost me more, simply because I don't want to support your unethical practices with my patronage.

Business Reply  Howard, 2014-02-25, 03:52PM CST

After you place the order our staff takes the time to process it, sometimes follow up and our production offices take their time to create a proof and send it to you. That is all time for us to work on your order, that is why we charge the 20% if you cancel your order before printing has begun.

All of our customers receive an e-mail saying that their order has been charged. We only send invoices when requested and I believe you asked for the invoice after your proof was sent. Due to the different paper stock and wide range of products that we offer, we have to manually calculate the weight and then get the shipping quote from UPS.com. We charge what is advertised on UPS and do not mark it up. We will need your order number to let you know how much your order weighed so we can show you that UPS Ground shows that shipping for your order is $24. We did not stop your order when I was wondering how we can better your experience with our company in my last comment. Again, I will need your order number to give you the status of it but I can assure you we did not put a hold on it. We simply go to UPS.com, enter the weight of the product(s), enter our zip code, enter your zip code, then click Calculate. We have been shipping with UPS for 19 years and sometimes the charges are surprising but we have no control over that. We do not make money from the shipping charge, that all goes to UPS. There would be no reason for us to mark up the shipping. Please give us your order number so we can further assist you. Thank you

Henry F., 2014-05-09, 01:31AM CDT

Dear Consumer,

My name is Henry Fan and I am president of Designline Graphics Inc. We have been in the print business and has been a leader in innovating and creating unique business and plastic cards since 1997. It is unfair for you to state that we are a scam because of the nature of the products we sell. First there are so many dimensions and sizes of pieces printed, then you add the variation of materials and stock we print on... it would be next to impossible to calculate every single orders weight. We are not selling STOCK items like 99% of the sites out there. So each order since they are all custom has different weights and hence we calculate the weight separately after the order has been set. You can check what we charge on UPS.com and see we are not marking it up. We are NOT shipping company we are a for profit print company. I'm sorry that you feel we are a scam and such but would we really be #1 on google under plastic cards and related key words if we are? would we be in business since 1997 and online since 1999? and lastly would we have over 100,00 customers in our database who have ordered from us if we are what you say we are? If you are still free frustrated and scammed, email me directly your info and I can call you so we can have a professional conversation. There's always TWO sides to the story.

Thank you for reading this

Henry Fan

[email protected]

Jesse M., 2014-05-29, 01:17AM CDT

Hello, My name is Jesse Matz - was born and raised in Las Vegas. While I was starting up a business - I actually did two orders through 4colorprint in the last 2 years and had no problem whatsoever. I walked in to their establishment and we talked (forget the girl's name. little asian girl though). Told them I'm looking for the bare minimum qty and that i'm an amatuar graphic designer to save a few bucks on my proofs (believe their charge is $45?). All and All, they provided great service and a FAIR price even when I pulled the "frugal card" upfront on them. Please check out their reviews around the web because this complaint doesn't do them justice for how actually great they are.

- Jesse M.

2441d3a4, 2014-05-29, 07:10AM CDT

Henry,

I also owned a brick and mortar business with an online store before (7 years, 40k+ orders shipped). In my current business, I currently setup eCommerce sites for my clients as well. I've worked with Volusion, Magento, OpenCart, Monster, and Yahoo solutions and ALL of them support live shipping quotes. Custom made cards still have a known weight for a specific thickness and quantity. If you've shipped to a 100,000 customers, you'd figure out by number 1000 approximately what each order size would weigh. That weight is then added to your eCommerce system, and shipping is calculate "live" - so cut the BS on "custom orders".

Your results on Google have nothing to do with whether or not you are a scammer. That is SOLELY based Search Engine Optimization (SEO) efforts. In fact, both of your arguments further prove your dishonesty, make 2 new false claims: Google ranking having anything to do with your business ethics and not being able to calculate shipping on cards. You have yet to address why you don't include shipping at checkout, seeing as how you know the weight of your products (over 100k orders, right?). You've yet to address why you don't use flat rate shipping for eligible orders. You lied about the shipping being in your terms of service and you lied again later saying that you never said that (them I attached your email proving it). On this forum, you tried to act like you care about the customer and wanted to "make it right", but you didn't care to make it right before I made the post (I called and said I didn't agree to the shipping charge, but you still wanted to charge me 20% of my order for an electronic proof). You want to make it right? Stop the scam. Add shipping to check out and hell, if you want to mark it up that high, at least people have the opportunity to approve or decline with you charging them an additional 20% for not approving the ridiculous fees.

So to clarify once again, I'm not accusing you of being a scam because of the nature of the products you sell. I'm accusing you of being a scam because you claim to have "No hidden fees", but your shipping charge is hidden until AFTER the proof process, which you charge 20% for if someone does NOT agree to the shipping charge afterward. I think your answers (or lack there of) and your continued dishonesty will peak loud enough to other would-be consumers.

Jesse, I'm glad you a positive experience. However, this doesn't redeem their dishonest online practices. Not to mention you're probably a friend, family, or employee of the business since most "walk-ins" don't go online afterward to look into company complaints.

Cheers.

Business Reply  Henry F., 2014-06-09, 10:55AM CDT

Dear Consumer,

I would really love to have a phone conversation with you so we can understand each other better. Im sure your comments have merits and is useful for me. If you speak to me, you will realize we are not dishonest and we are a legitimate business that has 17 years of history, I started this business in 1997 with borrowed laptops and door knocking for customers. I have built it to what it is today not by scamming people but by offering great products. I hope we can have an open line of communication and you will also realize that Im a very down to earth guy. Please call me 888.678.9998. I hope I can smooth things over with you and we can start a healthier business relationship. I believe I can really help you with any of your future printing needs.

Thank you for reading this.

Henry

Christina S., 2014-06-06, 02:08AM CDT

Hi, my name is Christina. I own a business and have ordered from 4colorprint.com multiple times, for years. I generally have ordered about 2 to 3 thousand business cards a year, as does each of the members of my staff. Now, When I first ordered, I was confused about the shipping as well. I called to ask what the deal was. They explained to me that the shapes and thickness could make a big difference. It makes sense since I get thick paper, with a custom shape and often have UV spot printing or the sides painted. (the weight of a card with a thick UV paint of my business name weighs more than a card without UV, and must be computed by an actual person) I get very very fancy cards. So they (I honestly forget his name) asked me to email in my designs and they would be able to give me a shipping quote. They called me back later and left me a voicemail. Now, I'm not sure how fair the shipping is or isn't. But my packages are heavy, and when I asked, they could tell me a price estimate. It seems a little expensive, but they've always been transparent with me and the most important aspect for me, is that the business cards are the BEST I have ever gotten. They are laminated in a way that they last FOREVER! I still have some that are 8 or 9 years old in the bottom of my luggage bag. So while I might agree that the shipping is a little steep, I think its pretty awful and harmful to claim this business is a scam just because you did not understand the terms or take the time to call and ask for a shipping quote.

2441d3a4, 2014-06-06, 03:16AM CDT

Christina, you should the entire post before writing. The claim isn't that the entire business is a scam, nor does your comment address the issue. My guess is that you were hired on Fiverr to write this review (http://www.fiverr.com/search/gigs?utf8=%E2%9C%93&search_in=everywhere&query=write+positive+review&x=0&y=0&page=1)

It wasn't a lack of understanding on my part, it was a lack of disclosure on their part. The scam is "locking some one" by not giving a full refund if they don't consent to the shipping.

BY THE WAY, THE SHIPPING QUOTE CAME BEFORE PRODUCTION OF THE CARDS AS PROVEN BY THE DATES OF THE REPLIES ABOVE. SO THE SHIPPING QUOTE WAS NOT BASED ON WEIGHING A FINAL CUSTOM PRODUCT.

This isn't going away to just go away with your fake replies. I told you on the phone this would happen, now let me give you another promise; I will persist at this until you change your unethical practice. I will drop it all if you add shipping to your cart or change your refund policy. Only then will I let this go.

Business Reply  Henry F., 2014-06-09, 10:54AM CDT

2441d3a4

You can complain about our standards and such but it is unethical nor fair if you make accusations of our customers that are stating their experience with 4colorprint.com... Please back up your accusations of them being friends, families or paid consumers. They are real customers who made a choice to make their voices heard. Your accusations or invalid without PROOF!!

Thank you Christina and Jesse for your voice and time to post. We really appreciate your efforts.

2441d3a4, whoever you may be.. Why would you ask us to proceed with your order if you felt scammed? You stated above you complain about us scamming you however your next post asks us to proceed with the order? Why would you give money to a company that you felt scammed you? We weren't trying to save a few bucks as you claimed but following our terms. We have emails of you and can post how unprofessional and profanity you used right from the start. This will really show your credibility.

Moving forward, your point about shipping will be discussed with our staff. We will make efforts to put in weights of our basic non custom products so we can integrate that with UPS. However many of the orders we get our custom, custom sized custom stock so custom weight and needs to be calculated after the order is completely spec'd out.

Again a BIG THANK YOU to Christina and Jesse...

2441d3a4, 2014-06-09, 04:19PM CDT

I asked you to move forward with order because you would not refund me and you were trying to unnecessarily delay my order. Plus if there was something further wrong with my order, I would expose that as well. There wasn't anything else wrong with my order once it arrived, so my only issue remains the sneaking in a (heavily marked up) shipping charge without approval and charging 20% fee if someone doesn't agree with it.

I cannot prove that you hired people to write comments on here, but I supported both times with my theory. The validity of my theory is in the eye of reader, so other readers can decide for themselves if it makes sense to them or not. Me? I don't believe for a minute that Jesse is a walk-in customer that decided to go on the internet to find complaints about you that he could defend, sorry!

I absolutely DID curse in my email. What a shocker, you scammed me and I got pissed... I think people might have already figured out that I'm pissed by the fact that I posted my complaint here.

I want to thank you for posting again, I love it! You only show MORE dishonesty with each reply. You said "2441d3a4, whoever you may be" then later demonstrate that you know exactly who I am by saying you're going to post my email. How would you do that if you don't know who I am?

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Post a Comment