Hindsight Trading - Beware of Hindsight Trading

Posted on Saturday, April 26th, 2008 at 2:48am CDT by 296e08c2

Product: Hindsight Trading Education Program

Company: Hindsight Trading

Location: Address Unknown and Not Listed on Website. Hmmm....
Salt Lake City, UT, US

URL: http://hindsighttrading.com/

Category: Other

Last year I spent about $10,000.00 so that Hindsight Trading could "educate" me on their e-mini day trading system. Before I shelled out the money, I was promised the world, so to speak. Yes they offered a 16 week course of 2 to 5 1-hour classes each week. Periodically they would even have great classes. However, the reasons for my complaint against Hindsight Trading are many. And, I'm not their only student with these complaints... (1) Before I signed up, I was told by their sales manager Dainon Haggard that class sizes would be restricted, but instead they grew and grew. There wasn't time for all the questions to be answered. Even when I emailed my question after class, I was often ignored.(2) One of their students (also the sales manager, Dainon) had only about 6 months experience. However, he taught several classes, even in the advanced program! Often his teachings contradicted those of the other teachers (and owners), Jason Anderson and Sean Larsgard. (3) We were taught the basic trading principles of "support and resistance" in the last month of my training and advanced strategies in my first month. That's like learning how to run before you can walk. I was doomed for failure! (4) It seemed Jason and Sean were teaching strategies as they were learning them and before they completely understood the strategies themselves. I was looking for a consistent trading system, not the latest and greatest strategy they just found! This plethora of strategies was overwhelming, confusing, and even contradictory. (5) Their courses included "proprietary" strategies like Double Tops, Pivot Points, and Moving Averages. Actually, these strategies are readily available on the internet for FREE! Often, they would rename basic strategies like these so they would just seem proprietary. (6) They didn't fully understand basic principles of the financial markets. For example, Sean taught us that the Empire State Mfg Survey was more of a market mover than the Consumer Price Index (inflation numbers). Tell that to Bernanke and the FOMC. If you know anything about the market, you're laughing right about now! (7) Just before the May 2007 interest rate announcement from the Federal Reserve, we were taught this in plain English: If the Fed raised rates, go short. If the rates were held or lowered, go long. This was ingrained into our minds, over and over again. Lo-and-behold, this strategy lost me and many other students money later in the year when the Fed held and cut rates. We went long... the market went down and hit our stops! -I could go on, but my point is made. I did try to resolve this with Jason and I asked for nothing more than a refund of just half of what I originally paid Hindsight Trading. In his usual pompous way, he said they back up their program 100%, but then refused my request for a half-refund. When the conversation was over, I told him that he would be hearing from me again. The next afternoon, on Saturday I might add, I received a threatening letter from his even more pompous lawyer! This was a 2 page threat promising a lawsuit and pressing criminal charges if I didn't shut-up. Either I must have scared them or, I'm not the first student to complain- maybe both! Well, their threat didn't scare me, hence this complaint? I just want to warn anyone out there thinking about signing up with Hindsight Trading. If you have the money to burn, you might as well donate it to charity. Stay away from this company. I believe they're misleading and ignorant. Their owners are also arrogant, young, and still have a lot to learn. Stay away.


15 Comments

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f31c6ca7, 2008-05-17, 03:12AM CDT

PLEASE NOTE THIS WILL BE THE ONE AND ONLY RESPONSE FROM HINDSIGHT TRADING, LLC.

Brodie Tyler enrolled in the Hindsight Trading program on April 30th, 2007. He did not pay $10,000.00, but did pay $8,920.00 for the sixteen week course, which is the current price of tuition still today. Brodie was referred by a friend, Garrett Goodwin, who was already an enrolled student of Hindsight Trading. Garrett clearly must have been happy with his experience and confident enough to tell his friend Brodie to enroll as well. Oddly enough his friend Garrett is the other complaint on this site.

Brodie was not promised the world unless his friend Garrett promised it to him. Brodie most likely watched our http://www.screencast.com/t/19Arm2S52t presentation which clearly does not promise anything, let alone the world. Or perhaps he watched one of Hindsight's YouTube videos, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJcaxrvkRd0, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xl6L3CbgaQ, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCogpuyVPIc, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfyI3NvuMt8.

There was always time for Brodie's questions just as there is with all of our other students. Most classes would run up to thirty minutes overtime to make sure all questions were answered and we still do it to this day. Classes are held Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 10AM MST and 6PM MST on Tuesday and Thursday evenings. We have always maintained a controlled number of students in each class and continue to do so.

And Brodie is right, it did keep "growing and growing" and still does to this day. Most of our students clearly have not experienced what Brodie claims to have experienced, or Hindsight Trading probably would not be growing at such a consistent rate. Nearly all of Hindsight's new students are referrals from other students.

Brodie is also partially correct in that Dainon did and still does teach our basic classes, NOT our advanced classes. He started teaching the basic classes after only eight months of trading the Hindsight system. It should've given Brodie and should give those of you reading this a lot of confidence in how simplistic our trading style is. So simple that even a new person can master these techniques in a short period of time if they apply themselves.

It is possible that Brodie was taught "support and resistance" strategies toward the end of his program. Classes are cycled so that each student receives at least two and sometimes three repeat classes on the same strategies during the sixteen week program. If Brodie learned advanced strategies in the beginning, it was because he didn't take our advice to wait to attend the advanced classes until later on in his program and after he mastered basic techniques. But we leave it open to our students to decide how quickly they want to advance through the course.

Our strategies, settings, and indicators are proprietary. Anyone in the trading world knows that there are literally hundreds of indicators and an infinite combination of those indicators. This is why, after thousands of hours and trades and the hundreds of thousands of dollars that we have invested; we narrowed down the process to our proprietary settings. From our research and experience, most traders will spend tens of thousands of dollars and many years of trial and error only to fail. Our focus is to help people bypass those lost years and dollars and get right on track to experiencing success.

We taught Brodie that market movement is gauged by actual number rather than by the announcements themselves. Brodie will remember on the specific day the Empire Survey and the CPI numbers were released, the Empire Survey actually pushed the market more than CPI did because the numbers were so off whereas CPI came back with little to no change. So contrary to Brodie's claims we clearly DO understand this aspect of the market because on that day, the market responded exactly as we taught Brodie it would respond under the circumstances. Brodie's confusion came in the mix up of comparing the two rather than the actual numbers to the individual announcements that were released.

Brodie was NOT taught that if the Fed raises rates to go short, or if they lowered rates to go long. What he WAS taught, however, was historical market data. HISTORICALLY when the Fed lowers rates, the markets tend to rally. When the Fed increase rates the markets tend to drop. But most importantly, no matter what the Fed does with rates, to never ignore technical analysis or put your trading account at risk by leveraging every dollar that you have; which is rule #1 on any economic announcement. Obeying this rule netted one of our students this last fed day on Wednesday April 30th 2008 more than 14 points (280%) on the Russell 2000 eMinis.

Brodie did not try to resolve things with Hindsight but rather tried to blackmail Hindsight through his own threats. Brodie told us that "his carpet business was suffering, money was tight, and things weren't going so well financially with his family". Out of what sounded like a desperate plea, he then mentioned that "he didn't feel the program was worth the amount ($8,920.00) he paid" nearly a YEAR after starting the program. After we told him Hindsight's stance on the matter; which by the way was NOT pompous but an eagerness to help and give him what he felt he missed in the program including a fresh start from the beginning. Brodie then said "$3,000.00 would keep him quiet or he would go public with his dissatisfaction and cause Hindsight Trading much more damage than the $3,000.00" he was trying to extort.

The letter from our attorney was not given to Brodie because it scared Hindsight. And it wasn't given because there have been other complaints. In fact, in the almost two years that Hindsight Trading has been around, Brodie is the first to complain about Hindsight followed "ironically" by his friend Garrett. The cease and desist letter was given to him to clearly define that we do not and will not tolerate threats, blackmail, or extortion from anyone.

Here is an email Brodie sent to us on June 1st 2007. I think this explains why he didn't do so well overall and unfortunately is the reason why most traders around the world that never make it ultimately fail.

Brodie writes:

"Feel free to share this stupid experience with other students...

Today I was 3/3 +2.3 (up 46%) after that big run up just after opening. I was irritated because I was moving up my profit target and since it shot up so fast, it got filled prematurely. To make up for "the profit I missed" I then got greedy and did 5 more trades, all of them losing. Over these 5 losing trades I lost a total of 4 points and ended up negative 1.7 points for the day. I obviously got greedy and didn't follow my rules. I sure paid for it! (Luckily I was only trading with 1 contract). Anyway, I've made some changes so this won't be happening again.

Have a great weekend!

Brodie"

296e08c2, 2008-07-04, 03:30AM CDT

Yes, the Hindsight Trading program will cost you about $10,000 after their tuition and all the other costs of getting everything set up to trade.

I was promised the world by Dainon, Hindsight Trading's sales manager.

Dainon did teach the advanced Hindsight Trading class, which was held in the evening. He taught material contradictory to what Jason Anderson and Sean Larsgard had taught previously.

Support and resistance was taught AFTER Hindsight Trading had figured out what double tops were. This was "NEW" to the Hindsight Trading program when I was in the class. It wasn't even in their manual when I first started.

Hindsight Trading strategies are not proprietary. They simply rename indicators to make them seem "proprietary." For example, their moving averages are called the Prema and Hyline.

Hindsight Trading is really sticking with "the Empire Survey actually pushed the market more than CPI" - My point exactly!!! Why then, did Jason Anderson and Sean Learsgard recant their original position soon after I called them on it?

Yes, I admit, I did try to get half my tuition back from Hindsight Trading (not just $3000). Yes, I gave them a sob story. Obviously they didn't buy it since I am following through with my promise to make this public!!

Like my sob story, the cease and desist letter from Hindsight Trading's lawyer was also a bunch of hot air. I went public and I'm still not in jail! (cross my fingers) By the way, this won't be the only website complaints about Hindsight Trading will be found on.

That email I sent to Hindsight Trading on June 1st was when I was only 1/4 the way through the program. I was hyped up from all the "success stories" that I was being fed from Jason Anderson and Sean Larsgard, the owners of Hindsight Trading.

Since we're sharing emails... Here's a bit of an email that Sean Larsgard of Hindsight Trading sent to all his "Platinum" students on June 11th:

--------------------------------------

"I received a couple of emails from a few of you asking us to clarify what advanced trades are. So here is a list of advanced trades you will be asked to keep to yourselves.

PREMA factor

The DAY chart (and any trade pertaining to the day chart including forecasting techniques)

Channel Surfing

6:30 HUSTLE/Correction

Overnight trades

Double tops/bottoms (for now ???????? this strategy will be introduced to all students, both current and expired, shortly)"

--------------------------------------

Notice how support and resistance trades like Double tops/bottoms were only for the advanced class? This is the most basic of principles in trading and it was withheld from the beginners!

Here's another email that I sent to Jason Anderson of Hindsight Trading on July 6 that went UNANSWERED:

--------------------------------------

On that DB at 756 I saw a lot more indicators against a DB than for it:

AGAINST: high volume, not a lot of bids, indicators pointing down

FOR: divergence

My finger was hovering over the buy button but I didn't get in. Did I not see it correctly?

Also, a little bit later I lost on a BOL trade. I uploaded it up to HSTU. Would you mind looking at it and letting me know what you think?

Thanks,

Brodie

--------------------------------------

This last email was in response to a comment Jason Anderson made about how easy this trade was to see. Hindsight Trading is all about, well, hindsight! It only looked like a good trade AFTER it happened, even though their teachings said otherwise.

If after reading this dialogue, you spend $10,000 on getting into their program, than you're an even bigger idiot than I was! Don't make the same mistake.

296e08c2, 2008-07-04, 03:46AM CDT

Yes, it the Hindsight Trading program will cost you about $10,000 after their tuition and the cost of getting everything set up to trade.

It was Dainon that promised the world- he's the sales manager for Hindsight Trading.

Dainon did teach the advanced "Platinum" Hindsight Trading class, which was held in the evening. He taught material contradictory to what Jason Anderson and Sean Larsgard had taught previously.

Support and resistance was taught AFTER Hindsight Trading had figured out what double tops were. This strategy was not cycled at the time, it was "NEW" to the Hindsight Trading program (see email below).

Hindsight Trading strategies are not proprietary. They simply rename indicators to make them seem "proprietary." For example, their moving averages are called the Prema and Hyline.

Hindsight Trading is really sticking with "the Empire Survey actually pushed the market more than CPI" - This was at the time when interest rates were all the talk on wall street. Also, Jason Anderson and Sean Learsgard recanted their original position soon after they were called on it.

If you buy something at the store and it's different from what the packaging said, you're going to return it back to the store. What's the problem with trying to get half the tuition back from Hindsight Trading (not just $3000). So what if Hindsight Trading was given a sob story. Obviously they didn't buy it since this whole dialogue is now public as promised.

Like the sob story, the cease and desist letter from Hindsight Trading's lawyer was also a bunch of hot air. Nobody's been thrown in jail as of yet! (cross your fingers) By the way, this won't be the only website complaints about Hindsight Trading will be found on.

Lots of "thank you" emails were sent to Hindsight Trading. They hype you up from all the "success stories" they feed you from Jason Anderson and Sean Larsgard, the owners of Hindsight Trading. This hype fizzles out once you realize they don't know what they're teaching.

Since we're sharing emails... Here's a bit of an email that Sean Larsgard of Hindsight Trading sent to all his "Platinum" students on June 11th:

--------------------------------------

"I received a couple of emails from a few of you asking us to clarify what advanced trades are. So here is a list of advanced trades you will be asked to keep to yourselves.

PREMA factor

The DAY chart (and any trade pertaining to the day chart including forecasting techniques)

Channel Surfing

6:30 HUSTLE/Correction

Overnight trades

Double tops/bottoms (for now - this strategy will be introduced to all students, both current and expired, shortly)"

--------------------------------------

Notice how support and resistance trades like Double tops/bottoms were only for the advanced class? This is the most basic of principles in trading and it was withheld from the beginners!

There are many more examples of emails sent to Hindsight Trading went UNANSWERED.

Hindsight Trading is all about, well, hindsight! Their trading strategies looked good AFTER they happened. This could be why they would never allow students to watch them trade live- hmmm...

If after reading this dialogue, you spend $10,000 on getting into their program, than WOW- you've got money to burn! Don't make the same mistake and move on to the next "educator."

8aaa97a5, 2008-07-22, 04:23PM CDT

Thank you for this information. I think I will pass on enrolling.

2fdb297d, 2008-11-05, 06:09PM CST

I am someone who invested $10k in myself...not Hindsight Trading. I have found absolutely nothing wrong with the people at Hindsight or their educational program. I can say that I would give anything to have done this 10 years ago. I have found that their training, educational process, primary trainer (Dainon Haggard), web access and overall systems to be incredible. If you want to learn how to trade this is a great program. However, the guys at Hindsight can't make you devote your time and your heart into it. If you do not have the burning desire to become a good trader then no trading program will work for you. HIndsight provides everything you need, but you have to want to do it and you must be passionate about it. I enjoy finding out how the market works and how their trading plays work in the market. I enjoy each day and look forward to the classes. It has changed my life, but I want to be a private trader and own my life. Hindsight is well worth the money.

Scott Perry

3d28e867, 2008-12-16, 09:29PM CST

I have been working with Hindsight for around 2 months. I appreciate all Dainon, Sean and Jason are doing. They preach trading strategies, but more importantly (and I feel necessary), structure and discipline. Trading is easy...keeping a cool head, maximizing profits and minimizing loses is what I, and others struggle with and Hindsight does a great job with the X and O's as well as mental aspects of trading. Thanks especially to Dainon, who puts on great classes, answers every email, and has really taught me how to trade effectively. I would recommend Hindsight to whoever is interested in learning this trade.

c6f7c886, 2009-02-24, 07:04PM CST

I will remain un-named, but i too got screwed. Dainon promised the world and said one thing and did another. It's not worth it!!

a60213ce, 2009-07-15, 04:37PM CDT

In my own opinion, for those of you who really want to trade as a business, I highly recommend

Pristine Trading at pristine.com or Velez trading at VCMtrading.com. If you

want to be a true technical trader, don't spend your money on those individuals that don't trade their own money.

f1d7d84a, 2009-10-26, 03:49PM CDT

thanks Brodie i will not give Hindsight Trading

my money

98740bf9, 2010-03-17, 01:45PM CDT

Market Mover Trading is another scam Jason Anderson and Sean have put together. They have exploted uneducated traders once again. If you don't know anything about trading why would you pay $2000 for a class of info you can get for free on you tube and investopidea. These guys are also charging $150 a month for economic calendars you can get for free at nasdaq.com and forex factory. Google economic calendar there are tons of real time calendars that I feel are even better that Market Mover Trading

d9003511, 2010-04-12, 03:06PM CDT

I agree completely with this complaint and would encourage those who are truly feel misrepresented by Hindsight Trading, Market Mover Trading or any of their employees or representatives to be brave enough to post about their experience. Those who work for a company are the company so it does not matter who said what if it was the companys representaive who said it they need to be willing to back it

0c9f7bdb, 2010-04-12, 03:06PM CDT

I agree completely with this complaint and would encourage those who are truly feel misrepresented by Hindsight Trading, Market Mover Trading or any of their employees or representatives to be brave enough to post about their experience.

31745c2e, 2010-08-04, 12:37PM CDT

Are these the same poeple????

Email This to a Friend

For Immediate Release

March 10, 2010

For more information contact:

Larry Dyekman (312) 781-1372, [email protected]

Karen Wuertz (312) 781-1335, [email protected]

Charles Mitchell d/b/a Hindsight Commodity Traders agrees to withdraw from NFA membership for seven years

March 10, Chicago - National Futures Association (NFA) has accepted Charles Mitchell's settlement offer to withdraw from NFA membership for a period of seven years. Mitchell is an Introducing Broker doing business as Hindsight Commodity Traders, located in Indian Trail, North Carolina. The Decision, issued by an NFA Hearing Panel, is based on an NFA Complaint filed in September 2009 and a settlement offer submitted by Mitchell.

The Complaint charged Mitchell with submitting false or misleading information to NFA, using deceptive promotional material and failing to make required disclosure document amendments. Mitchell must pay a fine of $20,000 in the event that Mitchell reapplies for NFA membership at the expiration of the seven-year period.

The complete text of the Complaint and Decision can be found on NFA's website (www.nfa.futures.org).

NFA is the premier independent provider of innovative and efficient regulatory programs that safeguard the integrity of the futures markets.

0ae53769, 2010-10-14, 04:45PM CDT

Please be advised that Hindsight Trading, LLC is entirely unrelated to Hindsight Commodity Traders, Charles Mitchell or Market Mover Trading.

We have never heard of, nor done ANY business with, Hindsight Commodity Traders or Charles Mitchell. Neither have we done business with Market Mover Trading or have any affiliation or ties with Market Mover Trading at all. These statements are false and misleading.

We have repeatedly requested complaints.com to remove this post as it is entirely incorrect in its reference to Hindsight Trading, LLC.

I would more than happy to talk with anyone about this to set the record straight on these matters.

Best regards,

Colin Archuleta

CFO & Managing Partner

Hindsight Trading. LLC

colin@hindsigh[email protected]

Office: 801.676.5999

Fax: 801.820.TRADE (8723)

Toll Free: 888.396.3686 Ext. 101

8a94a0b8, 2011-10-18, 10:35PM CDT

I'm a new trader and this is the sort of problem that plagues the industry. Good on you for expressing your thoughts and not letting them intimidate you into silence.

Many of these so called schools offer training because the founders can not make it trading themselves. Let this be a warning to all new traders - be careful out there.

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