Chinese motor scooter complaint

I recently filed a very serious complaint against Jim Johnson and =

Bandit Motor Sports, 3390-C Roosevelt Blvd., Eugene Oregon, to the =

Better Business Bureau in Oregon, http://www.thebbb.org

I purchased a UC 250Z motor scooter in July of 2006 and took delivery in =

August of the same year. My complaint outlines;

a.. Warranty promises made, and never honored by Jim Johnson and =

Bandit Motor Sports.

b.. Geared sending unit at the front wheel is not matched to the =

tire size. thereby the geared sending unit is sending incorrect data to =

the speedometer and odometer, such as accurate speed and accurate =

mileages.

c.. Handlebars were incorrectly affixed onto the motor scooter, =

consequently they were crooked / misaligned.

d.. Also, there was body damage to the scooter upon delivery

e.. Fuel gauge did not correctly measure fuel remaining in the gas =

tank due to a stuck fuel float.

Bandit Motor Sports currently has an UNSATISFACTORY Better Business =

Bureau rating; http://www.thebbb.org Select "I am a Consumer" then =

under the category of "Check out a Business" and enter Bandit Motor =

Sports and then select their current address - 3390 Roosevelt Blvd.... =

They have 4 complaints rather than the 2 they represent on their web =

site - (Update, BMS no longer claims anything regarding their BBB =

status, but they did until recently say; We've been operation since =

January of 2003, and have only had 2 BBB complaints (easily resolved)

email me at Email User for an e-mail copy of my BBB complaint and =

the BMS response.

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Bill here again I also have tons of emails and cell phone records.I hope we all work togeather and get something done about this Bandit Motorsports mmm dont that name fit JJ Bandit MMM.Am also am filing a complat with BBB one last thing I contacted my lawyer and we talked for a hour on the warranty and he is going to write a letter to the BBB also and a few other thing also thank you Bill

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Hi my name is Bill and my friends name is Tom we both purchased utvs from Bandit Motorsports and nothing but problems getting parts from this so called bussiness man,his customer servive stinks.He dont take phone calls so watch yourself.I got took by him for 6400 bucks and had nothing but trouble getting parts..He dont care about you in any way just as long as he has your $$$$ its bye bye to you,I wish there was a way to get my money back thanks for reading this and please contact me any time Bill

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Chinese scooters are notorious for having the wrong sending units for the speedo. I think they buy units for motorcycles and just put them on scooters with much smaller tires. My Shenke Navigator 150cc reads 45 when it is doing 37 (certified by police radar). The dealer agrees with me but says the importer only has a single sending unit. I am researching to see if anyone in the parts community has a replacement unit with the right gearing for a 13" OD tire.

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Before reading my complaint against Bandit MotorSports of Eugene Oregon, please read the 'pro' BMS comments listed below, three in total. Then return to this posting.

So regarding the pro comments below defending Bandit MotorSports and Jim Johnson, president, I read with great amusment the positive character references and support for BMS against me, the (whining, out to get Jim Johnson) guy. Can anyone say "damage control?" Obviously, these pro comments are a defense for a company that is not defensible. But more on this later on in the posting. In all likelihood, these responses, in support of Bandit Motorsports, are from family, friends and those who have a vested interest in BMS. It's the same kind of lame response I received when I posted a negative Better Business Bureau report on BMS on the web forum 'Scootdawg.' And speaking of Scootdawg.....

BMS and Jim Johnson also claim;

"If you are looking at purchasing a scooter, you can use this link to the 'ScootDawg' scooter forum to do some research online www.scootdawg.com We maintain a very positive standing on the 'ScootDawg' forum and provide technical assistance for people who are not even our customers. We try hard and go beyond to provide a higher level of support and try to make our customers happy with their scooter purchase."

The reason they enjoy a positive standing on ScootDawg, is because no complaint against BMS will be allowed to be posted on that forum. Any complaint will be banned and so will you!!!! So consumer, go ahead and post to that forum. Simply post your message on Scootdawg saying something like "Character reference on Jim Johnson." You'll be contacted almost immediately. And if the e-mail reference you give is negative, you and the posting will be banned.

So how's that for Bandit MotorSports truth in advertising?

So to clear up any misconceptions regarding what 'sincere' Jim Johnson promised, I have included portions of his e-mail responses to me in quotes (he probably doesn't e-mail promises to his customers anymore), and what was actually corrected. So here are the problems...

1. Belly panel was damaged in shipping (BMS was responsible for shipping the product)

Here is 'sincere' J J's 1st response to me during the warranty period;

"I will have a bunch of new parts (mostly body panels) here shortly in a new container of scooters due next Monday. I will get the belly panel coming out to you at that time."

RESULT: I never received the belly panel.

2. The scooter handle bars were crooked and needed to be aligned with the front tire.

Here is 'sincere' Jim Johnson's 1st response to me during the warranty period;

"So I was checking my UC-250 and found that it appears the left handle bar sits much lower than the right side (while seated on the scooter.....I discovered that the body panels don't seem to be aligned perfectly square on the scooter. In other words, the mounting points for all the body panels in the front end are just welded on to the frame and may not be very consistent. Or could be consistently off;

RESULT: This problem was never corrected due to the fact that the handlebars are welded to the frame, a situation that cannot be corrected, nor could they replace my scooter with one in their inventory, (i.e. all of the scooter's handlebars JJ measured were inconsistent too).

3. A stuck gasoline float that did not register the correct amount of gasoline in the gas tank.

Here is 'sincere' Jim Johnson's 1st response to me during the warranty period;

"On the gas gauge, I would guess that the float has stuck in the higher position. Usually if there is signal problem, the gauge will indicate empty or bounce back and forth between empty and whatever level the float is at (represents an intermittent signal). If you can stick a hook-wire in the fuel tank, (every manual I have consulted says this fix is an extremely dangerous procedure and should only be preformed by a licensed professional) and locate your float, you can move it around in the tank and watch the gauge move. The float is on the left hand side of the bike (facing forward) and towards the filler neck. The other way to get at the float is to remove the seat, then the plastic cover over the fuel tank, then there is a bronze colored locking ring on the sending unit / float. You can remove the float from the tank and hold it in the air and move it up and down to check your signal to the fuel gauge. Let me know if you have a proper signal to the gauge, then we go from there."

RESULT: I did not and could not perform either procedure because of the danger involved and the level of expertise needed in performing this highly dangerous maneuver. The problem was never corrected, nor did BMS offer any on-site professional help to fix the float.

4. My speedometer recorded a speed of 30 miles per hour, when in fact I was only going 23 miles per hour. Speed was checked by riding by a stationary police radar. Consequently, the odometer does not record accurate mileage.

Here is 'sincere' Jim Johnson 1st response to me during the warranty period;

"On the speedo inaccuracy, I'm not sure of what can be done immediately. It comes down to the geared sending unit at the front wheel is not matched to the tire size so one of two things has to happen. The tire needs to get bigger, or the geared sending unit has to be made smaller. I have the supplier working on this at the moment but it's hard to convey the needed information so that he can understand what I am asking and needing. I am working on the problem for the long term though."

Apparently, 'sincere' J J in his response to me, already knew about the speedo / tire size problem by saying "I have the supplier working on this at the moment" "I am working on the problem for the long term though"

RESULT: I did not receive a newly sized tire, nor a geared sending unit to match the tire.

So here are the last 2 e-mails from BMS and Jim Johnson to me in December of '06....

_______________________________________

Bandit Motor Sports responded;

"Understand your concerns and we will work to get everything resolved for you soon. I need more info from the supplier before I can make an assessment."

Thanks, Jim J;

_______________________________________

Bandit Motor Sports responded

"Sorry for the delayed response we're gearing up for X-mas up here and I'm getting in some ATVs and dirt bikes to sell here at the shop."

"Also, I wanted to get back some info from the supplier in regards to the speedo sending gear and the front tire size he has not completed his study as of yet but hopes to have a better corresponding unit before he ships my next container before the end of the year"

Let us know if you have other questions

Thanks, Jim J

_______________________________________

Well, that's it. J J's warranty responses sure sounded sincere to me. Did they sound sincere to you? I really did feel it was just a matter of time before this trustworthy businessman honored his warranty commitment to me. So after waiting eight months for anything, I finally decided JJ was just giving me lip service all along. The only other way to get satisfaction was to start contacting groups that will cause JJ to reevaluate his flawed and uncaring position and warn the public against his practices and products. So I started my complaints against BMS with the BBB.

JJ's responses to the BBB were pacifying in nature, offering excuses that did not fix anything, and ignoring most of the more serious problems. Since he did not correct any of the problems, the BBB gave Bandit MotorSports an UNSATISFACTORY business rating.

But what has changed between the sincere warranty period and now? The reality is that nothing has changed. JJ never intended to fix anything. How do you go from "we will work to get everything resolved for you soon" to JJ saying;

"We feel this entire complaint was without merit and a waste of time for all parties involved."

And this response;

"But while we do take customer feedback and complaints very seriously, this complaint left us very confused to say the least

How can my complaints be without merit and leave him confused, since he responded positively to my e-mails complaints! J J obviously forgot he sent e-mails contradicting his current "confused and without merit" position. How can JJ say he takes complaints "very seriously" and then does nothing to correct the problems, giving only lip service to the complaint.

This company, based on the given evidence, cannot be trusted. And the buying public should not remain unaware. Let's face it, if this scooter was originally placed on a showroom floor for sale, and the defects were listed on the 'for sale' card, would you purchase this scooter, at any price? I purchased this scooter, at FULL price, blindly over the internet, with the guarantee and expectation that it would be free of defects, tested and visibly previewed, prior to shipping. BMS still offers this guarantee on their web site;

"Before we ship any scooter, we start, run and test your scooter thoroughly including checking all switch and light functions as well as body condition. Otherwise, we ship another unit. We don't believe any other seller provides this service since most are drop shippers. In any event, we will work with you to resolve the situation to your satisfaction to include any needed repairs."

This is why I expected the scooter to be 99.9% free of problems. What I did not bargain for was misaligned (welded to the frame, with no possibility for me, the consumer, to correct this major defect) handlebars, defective geared sending units, inaccurate odometer and speedometer readings, faulty gauges, etc. BMS has not resolved any of these problems. I mean how many problems must a BMS scooter have before BMS actually does something?

Any consumer that is purchasing a new product has reasonable expectations regarding his purchase, such as; all things will function correctly and supply a need to the user "as advertise;" that it will meet certain safety concerns for the individual user, and for the insurer of the product and will conform to any state and federal requirements, and that replacing or addressing problems during a warranty period will be honored, and if the buyer decides to sell the product, he can do so with a clear conscience, knowing the product he sells meets the above requirements.

P.S. expect to see more testimonials and critiques (damage control for Jim Johnson and BMS), regarding this posting. Please notice that all of BMS's testimonials below were posted within about a 10 day period. How obvious is it that BMS is behind these ridiculous praisings for itself and bashing me for calling out BMS and JJ for what they are? And you see this by their venomous - name calling - child like responses. My postings have struck a nerve with these people and they are engaging in extreme damage control.

So here's what BMS wants you to believe; If you buy a scooter for less, you must live with whatever problems it has when delivered. But is this real world logic? Does this skewed logic carry-over to purchases we make in the every day, real world? For instance, what if we get a sale or discounted price on a DVD player at Best Buy and when we get it home, we find out it doesn't play DVD's or that the remote control does not work, or the DVD player has been physically damaged, what should we do? Should we just live with the fact that you 'get what you pay for.' According to BMS logic, yes, live with it or fix it yourself and don't expect the seller to honor any warranty that came with the product.

So regarding my 4 specific complaints, (after the broken warranty promises), BMS and Jim Johnson now expect me to be their body and paint man for the belly panel damage, their welder to un-weld the crooked handlebars and then re-weld them to the frame, their expert mechanic to handle the removal of a gas tank float or insert a wire into the gas tank to blindly probe for a stuck fuel float, or to become their manufacturer (fabricator) to produce a new gear sending unit to match the wheel size on the scooter so it can send correct data to the speedometer and odometer unit. These defects far exceed what is called for on the BMS web site where they say ;

"But the main thing to consider is, if you do not have a basic mechanical ability, and are not comfortable with basic servicing of the vehicle on your own, you may want to consider buying from a local dealer."

There is absolutely nothing basic in correcting the defects I have described in this posting. And in 2006, the BMS web site never gave the failure rates on the bikes they sell, that they now give in 2008;

"There will be several Chinese made vehicless that will run flawlessly for many miles, but the percentage that fail within 500 miles is much higher than brand name bikes."

So that is what makes the 'pro' Bandit Motorsports comments below so bogus. But let's face it, what else can they say in their defense? They have proved themselves liars, (straw men) who rely on 'self-serving' faulty logic.

So JJ and BMS can claim whatever.

Thankfully, I still have all of Jim Johnson's e-mails to refute any mis-leadings he may wish to post. Remember, he still promises "we will work with you to resolve the situation to your satisfaction to include any needed repairs."

To my satisfaction? Not only has BMS not fixed anything, they even refused to take the deffective scooter back and refund my money. Also, how could I possibly sell this scooter in good conscience to anyone else? I can't.

P.S.S. Bandit Motor Sports continues to tell potential customers they have had only 2 BBB complaints, which is a lie, they have had 5 over the last 36 months. BMS says;

"We've been operation since January of 2003, and have only had 2 BBB complaints (easily resolved)"

Bandit Motor Sports currently has an UNSATISFACTORY Better Business Bureau rating; So check them out by entering http://www.thebbb.org Then select "Consumer" in upper left corner of the BBB web page, then under the category of "Check out a Business" enter Bandit MotorSports for the business and 'OR' for the state - and then select their current address - 3390 Roosevelt Blvd

And they continue to say they;

"We've never had any customer pursue legal action"

Again this is also a lie, because I had an attorney write them a letter asking them to settle this matter. And guess what, BMS and Jim Johnson never responded. I guess if you don't respond to legal action, it doesn't count as "legal action" against you.

BMS continues;

"and only one credit card charge back, which we let go through because it was the right thing to do for that situation or other card charge backs"

Again, another BMS lie. I had Discover request a "charge back" for the defective scooter they sold me. Discover informed me that BMS and Jim Johnson never responded to their request. Also, because I was strung along for over well 6 months by Jim Johnson, Discover only allows "charge backs" to your credit card within a 6 month period. My request was over the 6 month time period. I guess if you don't respond to a charge back request, it doesn't count as requests for "other card charge backs" against you.

And again, their biggest lie is;

"because we do work hard to resolve issues and make the customer happy."

AND NOW YOU KNOW!!

Comment On This

I agree with the guy who reported Bandit Motor Sports. The person trashing his report truely needs to learn about what to expect when buy a new prodcut. I have invesitgated Bandit Motor Sports and have found that their employees lied about certain aspects of their motor scooters. Bandit Motor Sports will be shut down sooner or late if I have any say. And I certainly do.

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Just another example of someone who can't uphold his end of a deal and has to whine to everybody how the world is SO unfair! Some internet dealers will promise you anything to get you to buy. BMS, however, states the case plainly and up front. Not only do they do that, they will also offer advice and any assistance that is needed for a customer to get their scooter on the road. The poor sad person is complaining about how his speedometer is inaccurate. Grow up and get a clue! Nearly every scooter manufactured by every company in the world has an inaccurate speedometer! Why should you be special and have the only accurate one?! Some are better than others, but to expect a deeply discounted item that is basically a knock-off of another product to be far superior to the original is just not reasonable! "The handlebars were incorrectly affixed...consequently they were crooked/misaligned" Oh come on! You couldn't be bothered to get out a socket set and remedy the situation?! It's a simple fix that someone with the manual dexterity necessary to operate a keyboard and the physical strength to actually RIDE a scooter ought to be able to do. Now the fuel gauge problem, did you actually try anything that Jim at BMS suggested? Or were you expecting in home service on the scooter that you had paid half the money for that you would have paid a brick and mortar dealer? It's very sad that you are willing to try to ruin the reputation of an honorable man because you can't be bothered to take care of minor problems that are expected by anyone who actually researches buying a scooter online. If I seem harsh, please understand that I have little patience for people who do stupid things and then blame others. If you didn't realize after all the disclaimers on BMS's site, that you would be expected to take care of removing parts for warranty work, then you did a stupid thing. To try to punish BMS because you couldn't be bothered to actually READ those disclaimers is a fault in you, not BMS. I'm sad for you because it looks like you are not willing to take responsibility for your part in this. Hopefully, one day you will become an actual adult citizen of this country and learn that you should examine a situation before slandering someone in public. For now, I find you pathetic!

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This is utter nonsense. All the listed problems are minor issues that could have been fixed with very little work. You bought a Chinese scooter for 1/3rd the cost of a Vespa and your warranty clearly said parts only. I bought 2 scooters from this dealer. They arrived with a couple of minor problems. He sent me the needed parts immediately and emailed me detailed instructions on doing the repairs, including photos from his shop. I fixed the scooters and they have run perfectly every since. You can spend your energy filing complaints or you can spend your energy fixing the problem. Obviously, you get off on whining instead of fixing.

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As a consumer I expect a certain amount of quality from the things I buy. I also do my reasearch. If you did your reasearch you would know that some of these things happen when you purchase chinese products and you should be warry of the distributer. This all seems very petty to me and if you read most warrantys the things you describe are not covered in the first place. Bottom line you get what you pay for.